Author Topic: The economics of Joshi Puroresu  (Read 1710 times)

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Offline windscorpion

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The economics of Joshi Puroresu
« on: December 09, 2008, 02:25:02 AM »
I was just wondering how much wrestlers make from their work. The attendance of your average show isn't that large so the take can't be huge and shared between the venue, promoters and what-not there can't be a whole lot left for each wrestler to take home. (Or am i wrong here?)

So is your average wrestler pro or semi-pro? I am guessing people like Toshie have to be pro as she wrestles so much she probably wouldn't be able to fit anything else in but for a lot of others they can't make that much money, especially some of the wrestlers from the likes of LLPW who don't wrestle weekly.

Or do they just top up their match fees with other work related to the business and/or family support? I suppose a lot (especially younger ones) just live a communal life based around their dojo?

Offline Eivion

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Re: The economics of Joshi Puroresu
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2008, 02:35:32 AM »
Not sure, but the younger ones likely still live with parents so they are probably safe in the financial area.

There was a number tossed around earlier in the year for regular shows, but I can't recall what it was.

I know AK said on SC once (granted this was several years ago) that Kyoko Inoue takes care of her girls so I imagine the NEO crew is making enough to live on.
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Offline ohtanisjacket

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Re: The economics of Joshi Puroresu
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2008, 08:20:28 PM »
The venues are expensive to book, which is why more and more companies are using less traditional event spaces. Shinjuku FACE was partly financed by a semi-famous guy in Japan, who's an Ozaki mark from way back in the JWP days. It was his way of helping her to promote. The new Korakuen Hall they're building is supposed to lower rental costs at the original Korakuen Hall, but time will tell. The reason the ticket prices are still relatively high is because of the overhead costs and the need for the workers to make a living.

As for how much they make, I don't think you'd get an honest answer out of anybody. It's more a question of whether they're making a proper living or whether they're dodging all of the shit Japanese workers are required to pay. There must be issues over medical expenses, etc. And who knows if the companies themselves are above board. Japanese promotions have a reputation for looking after their workers, but there's a lot of murky shit that goes on. If they weren't getting paid, they'd bail like the workers did on AJW. Obviously they're living above the bread line, but with the emphasis on saving money in Japan, they're probably angling to get married in the long run.

Offline Her Majesty Queen Kori I

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Re: The economics of Joshi Puroresu
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2008, 09:12:08 AM »
Some of them do have their own outside business or work outside of joshi for similiar fields.  Fuuka has her modeling thing, and I know a lot of the retired wrestlers had their own little bar or restaurant.  Ayumi has a karaoke bar and works for her parents at their place.  AKINO has her own dojo and works with U-FILE. 

It just depends.
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Offline The Grand Inquisiteur

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Re: The economics of Joshi Puroresu
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2008, 07:15:59 PM »
Interesting question windscorpion, I just love a vivid curiosity!  Sadly, I have no clue but I do remember seeing something on Takako Inoue back about ten years ago, when the internet was new and innocent.  One nite, after work, I was on my normal porn patrol when I ran across some nude pics of Takako,  which also had some general information about her and her wrestling vocation.  There were perhaps four of five really good images (the half naked ones) and some of her shopping and ring stuff.  But what stuck me were the shots of her at home.  I was thinking a fine young babe like Takako should be raking in the big bucks and living high on the hog.  However, to my nihilism, her home was like a one room affair, with a bed, a table and two or three chairs.  It was neat and tidy but couldn't have been 300 sq. feet in size.  It was that imagery that haunts me to this day.  I can only comeup with three possible reasons for that state, either Takako is a very frugal young lady that invests her money wisely or the rent in Japan must be ridiculous or she just ain't getting paid a proper wage.  I would like to think the account was based in frugality, but my suspicion leads me to speculate the latter.   

If I may have the liberty to compare.  As a frequent patron of some of the sleazier joints in town, I find it ture that the ladies that provide the entertainment are at the bottom of the list in terms of compensation.  You would think and logic would hold that such would not be the case but the power there as in ladies wrestling is with the "man" making it happen and not with those that provide the show.  So, my guess is that for all their effort and ability, most of the money finds it's way into the fat guys pocket and the ladies are left a small slice of the pie.  Don't take this to the bank but be observant, how many ladies of wrestling do you see driving around in a LeBlanc Mirabeau or a Saleen S7 Twin Turbo?  My guess is not many, if any!  That's how the world works, from the top, down.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2008, 07:19:01 PM by The Grand Inquisiteur »
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Re: The economics of Joshi Puroresu
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2008, 09:13:26 PM »
Nobody makes money in indie wrestling. Promoters make the most (whether it's men's or women's wrestling), but most of those end up going out of business for a reason.

Offline ohtanisjacket

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Re: The economics of Joshi Puroresu
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2008, 06:33:27 PM »
A one or two room apartment with a kitchen is common for single people in Tokyo. A cheap, one room apartment would cost around $779 US per month. That's before expenses.

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Re: The economics of Joshi Puroresu
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2008, 08:11:13 PM »
And I guess that doesn't include utility and water. Apartments in Japan sure doesn't come cheap.

Offline The Grand Inquisiteur

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Re: The economics of Joshi Puroresu
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2008, 11:43:18 PM »
A one or two room apartment with a kitchen is common for single people in Tokyo. A cheap, one room apartment would cost around $779 US per month. That's before expenses.

Kinda like my thinking ohtanisjacket, do ya think we are just a ship of fools here?  If those that sacrifice the most, we value the least in terms of monetary appraisal!  I wonder if we apprehend that this ship is of our making, within the storm, I know it well, beyond direction it is a vessel out of control, just a ship of fools that may disintegrate on the reef of irrelevantly, just a group that has inconsequential insignificancies as the effort drifts into the atoll of anguish, we will find our fate, just a ship of fools as we float into unfathomable waters, dark and deep and with no harbor, we are on just a ship of fools as we see no distant shore to anchor, we are simply on a ship of fools at sail with no wind.  I do factor the of lack of vendor support, still to a degree of greater breadth we have an obligation of support.  Thus, a value for our being!
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Offline shupercousin

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Re: The economics of Joshi Puroresu
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2008, 01:12:49 PM »
Anyone knows if Commando Bolshoi takes care of her girls? I'm worried about how much Azumi is making. Does she need a donation?


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Offline shupercousin

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Re: The economics of Joshi Puroresu
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2008, 11:17:22 AM »
Also, does anyone know the answer to this question? So I'm assuming for joshi wrestlers who work for promotions, the promotions covers things like costumes right? When you are a free-lance wrestler, do you pay for the costumes yourself? Also, since wrestlers move from promotion to promotion or become free agents, they are able to take their costumes with them, so it seems like maybe they own them huh? Promotions don't own rights to the signature costumes that go with the wrestlers do they?


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Offline ohtanisjacket

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Re: The economics of Joshi Puroresu
« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2008, 04:43:46 AM »
I dunno what the deal is with the costumes. I figure they must buy them themselves. They can write it off in their taxes.

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Re: The economics of Joshi Puroresu
« Reply #12 on: December 25, 2008, 01:10:05 PM »
I don't think any company buys costumes for their wrestlers. Maybe WWE, but again...I doubt it. Since most Japanese wrestlers seem to wrestle under their own names, promotions don't own anything. In the U.S., the larger promotions tend to prefer to have their talent work under branded names. This is why The Dudley Boys are now known as Team 3D; the WWE somehow managed to gain legal rights to the name "Dudley Boys" and "Dudleys", which is odd considering they'd used the name for years before coming to WWE.

Amazing Kong was smart enough to avoid this by using the name "Awesome Kong" in TNA.

Offline shupercousin

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Re: The economics of Joshi Puroresu
« Reply #13 on: December 25, 2008, 01:25:55 PM »
I don't think any company buys costumes for their wrestlers. Maybe WWE, but again...I doubt it. Since most Japanese wrestlers seem to wrestle under their own names, promotions don't own anything. In the U.S., the larger promotions tend to prefer to have their talent work under branded names. This is why The Dudley Boys are now known as Team 3D; the WWE somehow managed to gain legal rights to the name "Dudley Boys" and "Dudleys", which is odd considering they'd used the name for years before coming to WWE.

Amazing Kong was smart enough to avoid this by using the name "Awesome Kong" in TNA.

Oh that makes sense. Everyone pays for their own costumes and they own their names and attire. But then, why did JWP make all their new wrestlers change their names back in the...late 90's early 2000's??? I can't quite remember the exact time...


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Re: The economics of Joshi Puroresu
« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2008, 04:06:10 PM »
This is why The Dudley Boys are now known as Team 3D; the WWE somehow managed to gain legal rights to the name "Dudley Boys" and "Dudleys", which is odd considering they'd used the name for years before coming to WWE.
Not so odd, really. It's a matter of copyright. As you said, Kong made the right move by keeping her other name out of TNA. Once the name starts appearing on things like DVD releases, video games, action figures, etc., it becomes intellectual property of the distributor, not property of person or persons known by that name.

Offline J.H. - Firmly Re-Dedicated to Yoneyama!

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Re: The economics of Joshi Puroresu
« Reply #15 on: December 25, 2008, 05:52:54 PM »
I thought the JWP name change of 97/98 was strictly because fans were confused as to who was who due to the 2 Tomoko problem and to give each girl more of an individual look and style. To clarify Tomoko Miyaguchi became Ran Yuyu and Tomoko Kuzumi became Azumi Hyuga. Then Reiko Amano became the Carlos we all kno and love and then there was Maya Hashimoto... whose original name I can't even remember. Hell I don't even when Maya retired as it seems just randomly stopped showing up in results

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Re: The economics of Joshi Puroresu
« Reply #16 on: December 25, 2008, 08:10:24 PM »
I thought the JWP name change of 97/98 was strictly because fans were confused as to who was who due to the 2 Tomoko problem and to give each girl more of an individual look and style. To clarify Tomoko Miyaguchi became Ran Yuyu and Tomoko Kuzumi became Azumi Hyuga. Then Reiko Amano became the Carlos we all kno and love and then there was Maya Hashimoto... whose original name I can't even remember. Hell I don't even when Maya retired as it seems just randomly stopped showing up in results

James

I somehow thought the change was legally-related. Doesn't seem a good move in any light to have major name changes for the major roster wrestlers. That would be more confusing for fans than the fact there were two Tomoko's. Plus then why did they not only kept the change to Hyuga and Ran.


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Re: The economics of Joshi Puroresu
« Reply #17 on: December 25, 2008, 09:02:12 PM »
I somehow thought the change was legally-related. Doesn't seem a good move in any light to have major name changes for the major roster wrestlers. That would be more confusing for fans than the fact there were two Tomoko's. Plus then why did they not only kept the change to Hyuga and Ran.

To call the ones who got the name changes Major Roster Wrestlers at that point might noit be apt. They were all just geting their first major pushes (Carlos in her budding feud with Ozaki, Azumi teaming with Hikari and Ran... what was Ran doing angle-wise back then?). They were emerging mid-carders at the time. In fact they were rushed to the main event sooner than expected due to Kansai contemplating retirement for health issues, Ozaki working for them less to focus on GAEa and Hikari's impending retirement.

Still the name change was a device to make them stand out indivually. With the exception of Carlos amny fans were having trouble telling the girls apart (something that was an actual article in Lady Gong talked about this).

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Re: The economics of Joshi Puroresu
« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2008, 05:42:53 AM »
Your timing is out, J.H. The name changes happened in early '99 well after those events occurred.

Shupercousin, it wasn't a legal change. They were using their real names previously. It was just a repackaging like dozens of other Joshi stars have undergone.


 

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Re: The economics of Joshi Puroresu
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2008, 07:02:49 PM »
Not sure, but the younger ones likely still live with parents so they are probably safe in the financial area.

There was a number tossed around earlier in the year for regular shows, but I can't recall what it was.

I know AK said on SC once (granted this was several years ago) that Kyoko Inoue takes care of her girls so I imagine the NEO crew is making enough to live on.

I remember somewhere that people were thinking most of the wrestlers were making anywhere from 15,000 to 30,000 Yen per show, depending on age, and other things.  Hence why we see so many work for other promotions; wrestlers have to make a living somehow, so you work as many promotions as you can to get as much as you can, like Toshie and Apple.

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Re: The economics of Joshi Puroresu
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2008, 02:55:16 AM »
Yeah not a great deal, Japan and Tokyo especially isn't exactly known as being a cheap place to live!